Technique for riding knee deep powder ???

| Add a new Post...
Post By
  Thread Started By:   cossie   On:   Thursday 05/01/2012 @ 11:59 Show Newest First    
cossie
Posts: 1318
West Midlands
  #1  Technique for riding knee deep powder ???  Posted 05/01/2012 @ 11:59
A very happy new year to everyone and its been a long time since I last posted on here.

I was out in Alpe D'Huez over the Christmas hols and last Thursday was blessed with"REAL" knee deep, fluffy, cotton wool like powder.

I have ridden powder successfully before but normally it has been slightly wetter than this lightweight stuff.

I managed to get a few turns in but the second I tried to put in a harder turn at speed the board kept letting go and I ended up going under the stuff and getting a facefull of snow and at one point ingested mouthfulls of the stuff and nearly gagged.

Could someone tell me the right way to ride this stuff as it got quite tiring and frustrating after the 10th fall.

I was riding red runs at reasoable pace to keep my nose up on a 159 K2 Turbo Dream.
The board kept afloat quite well, even at lower speeds. I was generally trying to turn with my back foot. Was this my problem or was it something else ?
http://www.devineride.co.uk

Ski Snowboard Tuning & Servicing
in the heart of the West Midlands

- Our attitude toward life determines life's attitude towards us -
- Better to do something imperfectly than to do nothing flawlessly -
          Reload  Top
fatbob
Posts: 9536
Forum Mod
Nottinghamshire
  #2  Re: Technique for riding knee deep powder ???  Posted 05/01/2012 @ 12:35
In reply to post #1...
You'll need a higher gradient slope, to go faster and use retraction turns to push the air out of the snow (basically opposite of a basic turn, extend legs through turn then flex as you cross over then extend).

http://www.board-mag.com/2011/03/beginners-guide-to-riding-off-piste/
Clicky here to donate to our 9 day LEJOG ride for Christian Aid and Disability Snowsports UK
Use the code LZP12 at Proskins for 10% off and 10% to Christian Aid
Love Snow
The Rider Social Chatel
          Reload  Top
cantridepete
Posts: 1457
France
  #3  Re: Technique for riding knee deep powder ???  Posted 05/01/2012 @ 12:45
In reply to post #2...
bloody loads of the stuff at the moment, half to say.... i'm so over it now!!

I've given up riding powder on anything other than steeps akin to blacks really. When you cant reach ground its easier to drown than pick yourself up
          Reload  Top
Simmo3k
Posts: 426
Hampshire
  #4  Re: Technique for riding knee deep powder ???  Posted 05/01/2012 @ 12:47
In reply to post #1...
I find the best way to learn to ride pow is to not be aggressive. Be as gentle as you can through the carves, and try not to turn at too sharp an angle. Remember that you need to keep above a minimum speed or youll sink!
We can only know what the limit is by going beyond it.
          Reload  Top
Flinnster
Posts: 759
Surrey
  #5  Re: Technique for riding knee deep powder ???  Posted 05/01/2012 @ 14:47
In reply to post #1...

QUOTE (cossie - 05/01/2012 @ 11:59)

I managed to get a few turns in but the second I tried to put in a harder turn at speed the board kept letting go and I ended up going under the stuff and getting a facefull of snow and at one point ingested mouthfulls of the stuff and nearly gagged.

Pivot gently from the back foot, don't try to carve into it, you'll just dig down.
Lean back, practice and enjoy. It's a different feeling, you'll get it

Mouthfulls? Nah.. you need neck deep for that
Alpine Apartment For Rent:
Self catering chalet in Champagny-en-Vanoise to rent (Paradiski / La Plagne piste area).
Sleeps 4, available £475 per week. £250 refundable damage deposit.
          Reload  Top
cossie
Posts: 1318
West Midlands
  #6  Re: Technique for riding knee deep powder ???  Posted 05/01/2012 @ 15:51
Thanks for the replies all.

@fatbob. I'll read up on "retraction turns" later.

@Cantrid. Hows it going up in Cham mate ? You've been around parks too long ha ha.

@simmo. I dont think speed was my issue so much, I was caning it down the signal at one point as fast as I ride normal piste (and thats moving pretty quick these days).

@ Flinnster. Oh yeah its a different feeling all right, just after you face plant and find yourself upside down in the snow, in the dark,wondering which way is up and which way is down. I'll not give up though. For the small durations of time when I did put in some turns, the feeling was just ace !
http://www.devineride.co.uk

Ski Snowboard Tuning & Servicing
in the heart of the West Midlands

- Our attitude toward life determines life's attitude towards us -
- Better to do something imperfectly than to do nothing flawlessly -
          Reload  Top
philw
Posts: 2000
UK - England
  #7  Re: Technique for riding knee deep powder ???  Posted 05/01/2012 @ 16:12
In reply to post #1...
I don't like the sound of this "back foot" thing at all - you need to be centred above the board (albeit possibly with some set back, see below). You see a lot of people trying to crank turns with their back foot, which is not really going to get you far.

You will want some set back in your stance. If you're riding a powder board (I am unfamiliar with your board), then it may have set back built in, eg a Fish etc. In that case use the reference stance. For non-powder boards, expect to need 2-3cm of set back.

If your weight isn't pretty evenly distributed then you'll likely not be able to ride much and the leg with the load will burn. Typically people stick a stiff front leg out for defence and then weight their back, and try to "rudder" the board. That ain't ridin, you'll not make one run with anyone who can ride doing that.

If you can buy/ beg/ borrow a powder board then they make it more fun/ easier generally.

Steep is good. Expect things to take a little longer, at least until you're used to it, so don't push a bit and then push some more when it doesn't happen... take a second and if your technique is correct it should work. If you can forget it's powder, ride with good standard technique, and it will work. If your standard technique is pants then it won't work well in powder either.

You should not have to think about the nose of the board. If it's submarining and you're perling then try shifting your stance back as above. Modern powder boards generally ride low in the powder - the nose does not have to be out of the snow, it's irrelevant so long as you don't bury yourself.

As they said, steeper is easier. I'm on shallow stuff this week as there's a high avalance risk here, and the powder's wetter and shallower than usual. My home video probably won't help you much.

When you say "the board kept letting go", are you falling inside or outside the board in the turn? Sounds like inside, in which case you may be expecting it to turn faster than it is, and leaning too much into the turn. Hard to say without watching.

Glad you have powder there.
powder mountain   photography    CoC   work   Facts about snowboarding safety
          Reload  Top
cossie
Posts: 1318
West Midlands
  #8  Re: Technique for riding knee deep powder ???  Posted 05/01/2012 @ 16:50
In reply to post #7...
The board is a fairly wide nosed directional twin with K2 flatline reverse camber. The setback is 1 inch as standard (ref stance). I did try moving the bindings back twice by one set of holes each time.

The second setting seemed to work best but I never got chance to put the bindings back to the standard 1" setback ref stance to rule out the binding positition/technique issue.

From what you are saying though, it sounds as though I may have been a little too impatient in initiating my turns.


QUOTE (philw - 05/01/2012 @ 16:12)

You should not have to think about the nose of the board. If it's submarining and you're perling then try shifting your stance back as above. Modern powder boards generally ride low in the powder - the nose does not have to be out of the snow, it's irrelevant so long as you don't bury yourself.

I was continually thinking about the nose being out of the snow but not that I'd had needed to because the board does float quite well.

QUOTE (philw - 05/01/2012 @ 16:12)

When you say "the board kept letting go", are you falling inside or outside the board in the turn? Sounds like inside, in which case you may be expecting it to turn faster than it is, and leaning too much into the turn. Hard to say without watching

I was falling onto the inside of the turn maninly on heelside.
http://www.devineride.co.uk

Ski Snowboard Tuning & Servicing
in the heart of the West Midlands

- Our attitude toward life determines life's attitude towards us -
- Better to do something imperfectly than to do nothing flawlessly -
          Reload  Top
charliebuoy
Posts: 362
North Yorkshire
  #9  Re: Technique for riding knee deep powder ???  Posted 05/01/2012 @ 17:07
Revision #2 (Last edited: 05/01/2012 @ 17:08)
In reply to post #8...

QUOTE (cossie - 05/01/2012 @ 16:50)

The board is a fairly wide nosed directional twin with K2 flatline reverse camber

No camber you mean, clues in the name.

QUOTE (cossie - 05/01/2012 @ 16:50)

I was falling onto the inside of the turn maninly on heelside.

Sounds obvious but were you bending you knees? Sounds like you weren't staying over your board.
Flaps.
Photography
Click Me!
          Reload  Top
itsgot
Posts: 95
  #10  Re: Technique for riding knee deep powder ???  Posted 05/01/2012 @ 20:39
In reply to post #9...
the guy that posted a load makes sense,

speed and big turns are your friend,

the back foot has a role but you still need the front foot to initiate turns, in pow my weight distribution is probs close to 50/50, maybe 60/40 back front. leaning right back screws your whole body position and if your all back foot it slows you down in a straight line, test it out on something steep you can straight line a powdery black at walking pace if you get an epic wheelie going on
          Reload  Top
PowderPup
Posts: 356
Hampshire
  #11  Re: Technique for riding knee deep powder ???  Posted 05/01/2012 @ 21:18
In reply to post #10...
Knee deep is only a tiddler then.

Been riding pow so long, I don't even know what im doing, I just do it. However I often see it being done wrong. You do not ever want to be leaning back or standing on the back leg ever. If you keeping losing it and end up on your arse espicially on your heel then you're sitting back on your back leg too much.

You need a bit of speed to pop the board onto the plane. You need to read the hill, use tracks from others to keep speed over flat spots. etc.

As phil says set the bindings back to keep the nose up, but your weight should be more or less centered or natural. Bounching the turns works at slow speeds and in tight spaces.

Another point is the line you take, go for it, point the board down the hill. Ride in the fall line. You don't want to be scared of the hill taking a line across it, cos you'll have more of a turn to complete. On steeper slopes to control the speed just turn more often, keep the board in the fall line. In my formative years we called it 'Head down attack' and we'd yell that out to our mates that didn't get stuck in with a good dose of that.

Get confident with pointing the board down the slope and riding at speed. Infact it's a right buzz pointing straight down on a steep slope and engaging Warp 10.

Feel the force.
.
Snowboarding ruined my life
          Reload  Top
speedy75
Posts: 180
Lincolnshire
  #12  Re: Technique for riding knee deep powder ???  Posted 05/01/2012 @ 21:20
In reply to post #1...
Book / rent a skidoo ever time for deep pow fun
          Reload  Top
philw
Posts: 2000
UK - England
  #13  Re: Technique for riding knee deep powder ???  Posted 06/01/2012 @ 02:11
In reply to post #12...
Everything they said except

QUOTE (speedy75 - 05/01/2012 @ 21:20)

Book / rent a skidoo ever time for deep pow fun

Obviously you don't want to be renting a sled and ruping the back country unless you know what you're doing. This thread isn't about that, although if it was any heli is way better than sledding. You've sod-all chance of finding the goods and you're more likely to spend your time digging.


Steeps and a bit of practice help. Camber/ rocker makes no odds in my view; if your board has a set back stance then that's a good sign. As PP said, it's kind of tricky after a while to know what the fuss was about, as it's way easier than resort riding once you get it. The good news is that it's actually quite quick, if you can ride already. I think it's mostly being balanced, and not expecting that immediate "edge check" response. *Really* good skiers / boarders get it immediately, but most people take a while to adjust.
powder mountain   photography    CoC   work   Facts about snowboarding safety
          Reload  Top
NickE
Posts: 359
  #14  Re: Technique for riding knee deep powder ???  Posted 06/01/2012 @ 11:18
In reply to post #1...
Try riding the base of the board rather than using your edges. You probably are not even aware of doing it now, but when you ride piste, whether carving or skidding, you will be continually using your edges to control your speed and direction. That doesn’t really work in deeper snow, but by pressing the base against the snow you should be able to get the control you need.

Personally, I am not a fan of changing your set-up for different conditions; I think it’s better to learn how to adapt your body position and movements. In general, your weight does need to be a little further back than for piste riding, but you still want to maintain a balanced stance. This means you should be shifting back by flexing at the ankles so your body remains perpendicular to the board. If you do this properly, you are moving virtually all your body mass, so the movement needed is minimal. Shifting your bindings back is only going to move the centre of mass by a few centimetres. You can easily achieve the same effect with your body position if you do it correctly.
          Reload  Top
cossie
Posts: 1318
West Midlands
  #15  Re: Technique for riding knee deep powder ???  Posted 06/01/2012 @ 17:26
In reply to post #7...

QUOTE (philw - 05/01/2012 @ 16:12)

As they said, steeper is easier. I'm on shallow stuff this week as there's a high avalance risk here, and the powder's wetter and shallower than usual. My home video probably won't help you much.

Checked your video - Nice job ! The stuff you're on, defiinitely looks wetter, firmer stuff. Thats the kind of stuff I rode in Switzerland last year without any issues at all. The stuff I was on recently was almost like very fine super lightweight fluff. I notice your binding angles both face forward, compared to mine which are duck +15/-15. I dont suppose that would make any difference would it ?
http://www.devineride.co.uk

Ski Snowboard Tuning & Servicing
in the heart of the West Midlands

- Our attitude toward life determines life's attitude towards us -
- Better to do something imperfectly than to do nothing flawlessly -
          Reload  Top
Subscribe using any feed reader!
  Featured Websites
  TheSnowboardAsylum : The Snowboard Asylum – The UK’s largest range of snowboard hardware and outerwear, from brands including Burton, YES, Bataleon, Jones, Slash and loads more.
Search the Forum
Advanced Search
Latest Posts Latest Active Threads RSS Feed
- Portes du Soleil - Full area pass or not
- The Ramp Project - Sponsored by Snowflex.
- What length snowboard for me? Short and fat!
- Helmet or not?
- Motivational video
- Newbie Learning
- Help choosing equipment
- Anyone from Plymouth on here
- Knee Support
- Snowboard songs
- What do boarders want in a jacket?
- Special Holiday Offers for GBers - Regularly updated
- Bigger park at Hemel for 1 day freestyle camp with Onyx Snowboarding
- Forum boots have no grip!
- looking for boarding mates (scotland)
- Boarding buddies in Scotland required
- posture problem
- 148 or 151 snowboard size!?
- Driving to France - Closest resorts
- Nexus Snowboarding and Ski Camps
Get our Newsletter
Your E-mail Address
More Details
Find us on Facebook
© 2001-2014 GONEboarding.co.uk