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 #49 Re: Carving Posted 09/04/2010 @ 15:53 |
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| In reply to post #46
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QUOTE (philw - 08/04/2010 @ 22:33) The chap made a simple error and it's been politely pointed out what it was.
I don't think it was ever properly pointed out where my mistake was. Having reread what I've written and trying to look at the mistake I made, I probably used the wrong wording in terms of angulation. I should have said, "Slope angle has an effect on the degree of angle between board and snow."
However 'I' knew what I meant  and if you reread my later points you'll see I was talking about the angle between board and snow, of which slope does play a part when crossing the fall line (as agreed by Chip/Adam).
Anyway this has gone far beyond the OP's question and there was really no need for the tittle tattle. |
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| #50 Re: Carving Posted 09/04/2010 @ 16:04 |
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| In reply to post #49
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QUOTE (fatbob - 09/04/2010 @ 15:53) However 'I' knew what I meant and if you reread my later points you'll see I was talking about the angle between board and snow, of which slope does play a part when crossing the fall line (as agreed by Chip/Adam).
Reread my posts.. I didn't agree with that and that's what I was contesting.. it's pretty clear.. |
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I board therefore I am..
Piste-artiste and CASI L2 instructor |
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| #51 Re: Carving Posted 09/04/2010 @ 17:39 |
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| #52 Re: Carving Posted 09/04/2010 @ 19:36 |
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| In reply to post #50
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QUOTE (_chip_board - 09/04/2010 @ 16:04) Reread my posts.. I didn't agree with that and that's what I was contesting.. it's pretty clear..
My Post 20 -
In terms of angulation, you will get more angulation on steeper slopes just because of the slope angle.
Your replies.....
Post 21
If you were side slipping down a steep slope then you'd have a greater degree of 'angulation' but that would just be a result of the slope not angulation you have created by flexing.
Post 23
If you were carving ACROSS a steep slope, at 90º to the fall line, then it might be true (though I suspect that any steepness would just mean that you don't have to create the angle yourself - it wouldn't be any greater - you can only turn so hard right?
Am I missing something? When carving you generally do wide full/medium arcs so you cross the fall line. When you cross the fall line (i.e. going across the slope) you will have a higher degree of angle between board and snow on steeper slopes.
One of the teaching tools for carving is traversing. If you don't create enough edge angle the board will wash and not truck across the slope in a straight line. On a steeper slope this angle will be greater than on a nursery slope/blue. |
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| Posts: 140 |
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Greater Manchester |
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| #53 Re: Carving Posted 09/04/2010 @ 22:56 |
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Enough! The lot of you... |
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We've gone on holiday by mistake... are you the farmer??? |
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| #54 Re: Carving Posted 10/04/2010 @ 03:13 |
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Holy moly, you guys.
I think you're both going to have to 'agree to disagree' because from where I am sitting there is no way on the planet you guys are going to come any kind of agreement.
It's all a little school yardish... |
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Toqueanies Toqueanies - where handmade beanies and toques collide...
Toqueanies Toqueanies on 'The Book' |
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| Posts: 9199 |
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| #55 Re: Carving Posted 10/04/2010 @ 08:31 |
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| In reply to post #54
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It's not all school yardish to be fair, well not on my part. Maybe if we sat and chatted about this over a beer we may be able to see where each other is coming from. |
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| #56 Re: Carving Posted 10/04/2010 @ 15:16 |
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Revision #1 (Last edited: 10/04/2010 @ 15:16) |
| In reply to post #52
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If you were side slipping down a steep slope then you'd have a greater degree of 'angulation' but that would just be a result of the slope not angulation you have created by flexing.
Note the use of the term 'sideslipping' not carving down the hill.
If you were carving ACROSS a steep slope, at 90º to the fall line, then it might be true (though I suspect that any steepness would just mean that you don't have to create the angle yourself - it wouldn't be any greater - you can only turn so hard right?
Note the use of the term 'carving ACROSS the slope' not carving down hill.
Side-slipping and carving across the slope are NOT the same as carving down hill where forces act differently. The dynamics of the board and your body are completely altered.
Odd that you didn't quote my response to PhilW's agreement that slope angle makes no difference where I suggested that your body stays pretty much perpendicular to the slope when riding. Sure, when you're stationary, sideslipping or traversing it's pretty vertical but that's not the same thing as carving down a slope.
If, as you seem to think, the board base is horizontal at the transition (or as you cross the fall line) in a series of symmetrical turns then you'd take some time, after crossing the fall-line, to get the next edge in and the result would be C's with a short top and a long tail - like a C leaning back if you get me..
But that's not the case. A good carver will switch edges at the transition, as he/she crosses the fall line and afterwards you can see the 'pencil-line' switch from one edge to the other immediately. Therefore the base must be flat against the snow at the transition point and therefore slope angle has nothing to do with angulation when carving.
If you still don't get I'm sorry. That's my last comment on this. |
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I board therefore I am..
Piste-artiste and CASI L2 instructor |
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| #57 Re: Carving Posted 10/04/2010 @ 17:27 |
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| In reply to post #55
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It's just the way the replies you guys are typing to eachother come across. That was just my take on it, and it felt like it had gone too far. |
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Toqueanies Toqueanies - where handmade beanies and toques collide...
Toqueanies Toqueanies on 'The Book' |
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| #58 Re: Carving Posted 10/04/2010 @ 23:22 |
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with carving there are many things involved, but the way this thread is going, and the original post being regarding edging and pressure control.
the two things to worry about (amongst others) are inclination: the angle you make with your body over and beyond the edges of your board, leaning into (toe side) and away from (heel side) each turn.
the term 'angulation' is in reference to the increased edge angle you can make on your board using flexion and extension, try it out with one foot strapped it, bend your knees with a foot infront of your board to see how toe side ' angulation' or flexion of the lower joins can increase edge angle, then try with a foot behind for heelside, (you may have to step a fair way back and realy sit on your back leg)
in terms of carving it can be done on any slope as said but with advanced carving you should be looking to initiate the edge hold at about 11 and 1 o clock in the turn nice and early. then introduce the steering through the turn, flexion and then anticipation for the next one.
with the OP try to stay more centred in your stance for your heelside turn, some basic switch riding on mellow terrain should help you improve your S&B helping your edge stop chattering out when you are carving.
hope that helps  |
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jumping off a cliff only hurts if you forget how to fly.
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Nottinghamshire |
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| #59 Re: Carving Posted 11/04/2010 @ 15:11 |
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HAHAHA!! Pure bants, great read!
So, any ideas why he is losing his heel edge in a carve?
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| #60 Re: Carving Posted 11/04/2010 @ 22:19 |
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| In reply to post #59
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QUOTE (kilted79 - 11/04/2010 @ 15:11) HAHAHA!! Pure bants, great read! So, any ideas why he is losing his heel edge in a carve?
Read the first few responses. They are relying on the high back as a lever and getting inside the turn rather than using the shin muscle and closing the ankle joint using the toes strap. They may also not be flexing enough to counter gravity pulling them down the hill resulting in judder. |
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| #61 Re: Carving Posted 11/04/2010 @ 22:32 |
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| In reply to post #56
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QUOTE (_chip_board - 10/04/2010 @ 15:16) If you were side slipping down a steep slope then you'd have a greater degree of 'angulation' but that would just be a result of the slope not angulation you have created by flexing.Note the use of the term 'sideslipping' not carving down the hill. If you were carving ACROSS a steep slope, at 90º to the fall line, then it might be true (though I suspect that any steepness would just mean that you don't have to create the angle yourself - it wouldn't be any greater - you can only turn so hard right? Note the use of the term 'carving ACROSS the slope' not carving down hill. Side-slipping and carving across the slope are NOT the same as carving down hill where forces act differently. The dynamics of the board and your body are completely altered. Odd that you didn't quote my response to PhilW's agreement that slope angle makes no difference where I suggested that your body stays pretty much perpendicular to the slope when riding. Sure, when you're stationary, sideslipping or traversing it's pretty vertical but that's not the same thing as carving down a slope. If, as you seem to think, the board base is horizontal at the transition (or as you cross the fall line) in a series of symmetrical turns then you'd take some time, after crossing the fall-line, to get the next edge in and the result would be C's with a short top and a long tail - like a C leaning back if you get me.. But that's not the case. A good carver will switch edges at the transition, as he/she crosses the fall line and afterwards you can see the 'pencil-line' switch from one edge to the other immediately. Therefore the base must be flat against the snow at the transition point and therefore slope angle has nothing to do with angulation when carving. If you still don't get I'm sorry. That's my last comment on this.
Granted you are talking about carving downhill with shallow arcs just crossing the fall line. Personally I don't really see that as carving where you want a nice wide corduroy piste to 'lay down' the carve. You can do mirrored turns with carves and if you did need to change edge quicker then you can always do a cross through turn (now that does wack on a big edge angle quickly).
You'll see from the flawed diagram that I posted that edge change on a carve occurs at the top of the turn (across the fall line) |
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| #62 Re: Carving Posted 12/04/2010 @ 01:30 |
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* NEWSFLASH*
OP shoots himself in the head............ 
Andy |
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I do NOT fear Death - I fear not living..........er.........and small people with very large hands!
www.bushidokaikarate.webs.com |
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| #63 Re: Carving Posted 12/04/2010 @ 17:22 |
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Revision #1 (Last edited: 12/04/2010 @ 17:23) |
| In reply to post #62
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QUOTE (daywalker - 12/04/2010 @ 01:30) * NEWSFLASH* OP shoots himself in the head............ Andy
lol
Not quite there yet. It has been an interesting read but I'm none the wiser. There is something I haven't been able to put my finger on nor has anyone really addressed it. I've tried so many different ways to hold that damn edge and it always washes out. I've looked at my edge angle, weight, ankle/ knee flex my ass, you name it. I thought it was the speed but thinking back my toe edge carve was also fast. I let the sidecut take the carve and I tried turning when I'm at the peak of the carve when it slows up the fall-line and various points just before while maintaining the speed. Still washes out 
I know I'm just learning to carve and understand most points that have come up but still I feel I'm missing something. Maybe it's just more practice... |
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