| Ranked Posts: 15 |
| North Yorkshire |
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 #16 Re: DSLR Camera Help 18/07/2008 @ 15:42:26 |
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| In reply to post #1 ... |
| I'd like to chuck in that if you're buying into Canon then the Sigma 10-20 lens is bob on if you can't afford a fish eye and want a lens that is very wide but you can use for other stuff (I use mine for landscapes, gigs and allsorts). |
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| Ranked Posts: 789 |
| UK - England |
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| #15 Re: DSLR Camera Help 10/07/2008 @ 09:53:22 |
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| In reply to post #14 ... |
QUOTE (jamesmul - 09/07/2008 @ 21:37:09) What's the widest lens you use when photographing boarding? (and is your body full frame, or does it have a multiplier like the 450/40D).
All these are full-frame sizes; you may want to adjust if you're using an APS-C body etc.
back country
For back-country stuff I personally I use a 24-70 for general stuff, and a 15mm fish-eye occasionally. The problem with the fish-eye is that the rider has to be absolutely on top of you to get good shots... which works fine for park and pipe, but I don't do a lot of that. I sometimes carry the 15mm in the back country, but really you need to be on a sled and repeatedly shoot a specific place to make it work, which I don't have the dedication to do when there's snow to ride.
The problem even with 70mm is that it only works with good riders - if you're with people who you don't know, or who are not used to riding with a photographer, then it can be hard to get the shots. They either ride where you don't want them to, or ride to far away from you, or ride too close for comfort. I like this range of lengths though as is you can get close enough, you can get the rider and some significant background.
The guys I know who shoot every day at heli/ cat operators tend to shoot with something at least this long - I've seen the 100-400, and the 35-300 in use, plus the 70-200. But you have to bear in mind that they're looking for "ego shots" of riders they don't know, which can be like the "racing" shots below...
racing
Here longer lenses are useful... you generally can't get close enough (safely) to shoot racers with a wide lens, so you end up sniping them with something longer. This works ok, and the longer lens also works if you're scared of being hit by (less skilled) riders, or if you don't know precisely what line they may take. I have a 300mm which works well for this, although anything from 200 to 400 would probably be fine. Short enough not to need a tripod is key.
Here's an example at 300mm from May - the shot's clear enough, but you don't get any feel for what he's riding down...
parks, pipes, tricks..
Not really my thing, but I've shot a few and looked at thousands of shots from every day at CoC.
These guys are using a mix of full frame and APS-C bodies, with pretty much entirely fish-eye lenses, but this is all park stuff. They use light-stands and a bunch of other kit to set up at each hit, then the riders session it, so they put themselves in the right place and then let the riders come to them. Even so, you will note that lots of the shots are only so-so, as they're mostly too far away from those lenses (these are primarily amateur riders).
A quick double-check of their EXIF data shows that this week Dice K Maru (who has more Transworld covers than anyone else I know) is using a 1D Mk3 with a 15mm; Ian's using a 40D with a 10mm lens; Angel's mostly using a Nikon D300 with a 17mm lens.
When I have shot tricks and park stuff I have used the 15mm pretty much exclusively. This is a Fish shot from Sheffield.. she was about 10cm from my front element.
mountain biking
There's a bunch of stuff from the last few weeks at the Whistler bike park on the CoC site. Again it's pretty wide stuff with controlled lighting, so although I've no personal experience of shooting it, I'd say you'll want to be fairly wide there.
summary
It depends what you want to shoot. Most people will end up with a range of lenses to cover a range of uses.
Flame-thrower defence: some people say "it's about the photographer not the gear"; that's right for the wrong reasons. Good photographers use the best tools they can afford.
I'd not have a fish-eye as your only lens; they can be a bit tiring if you shoot nothing else. If you're just buying the camera and you don't know precisely what you want, I'd take the lens it comes with (the kit lens), and then work from there. You can always sell the kit lens on eBay later, and using it will help you figure out what you really need. |
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| Ranked Posts: 26 |
| Greater Manchester |
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| #14 Re: DSLR Camera Help 09/07/2008 @ 21:37:09 |
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| In reply to post #9 ... |
philw,
I'm currently in the market for a DSLR and I'm considering either the 450D or the 40D. Taking into account the multiplier these two will apply to the lens I'm trying to work out how wide a lens I should go for, given I'm planning on primarily using it for snowboarding and mountain biking.
What's the widest lens you use when photographing boarding? (and is your body full frame, or does it have a multiplier like the 450/40D).
Thanks in advance! |
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| Ranked Posts: 2191 |
| Greater Manchester |
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| #13 Re: DSLR Camera Help 09/07/2008 @ 15:47:47 |
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| Revision #1 (Last edited: 09/07/2008 @ 15:48:48) |
| In reply to post #1 ... |
Hey Timay,
I've recently bought myself a Canon 400D with kit lens for £360 inc p&p (let me know if you want the site). I think it's a wicked camera and it's definitely perfect for someone new to DSLRs that doesn't want to spend a too much on them.
I unfortunately have gotten a little caught up and bought an additions 2 lenses... Snowboarding and Photography alike... all the gear... 
I would say that if you can afford it go for the 450D cos your get more peggymitchel's and a slighty better lens, with Image Stablization. EDIT: Just looked at the prices on the 450D... forget about! Talk about pricey! |
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| #12 Re: DSLR Camera Help 09/07/2008 @ 15:19:20 |
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| In reply to post #11 ... |
Can I also recommend you visit http://strobist.blogspot.com/
This guys has so many lessons for you on flash, which can help amazingly on snow shots.
All the halfpipe and night rail shots rely on it, and most of winter is grey and cloudy anyway, so to get a high shutter speed, most times you're going to need one.
The blog points out (if you go to their archived articles) that you can use second hand flashes that are 1/3 the price of new ones.
You can even use the Nikon flashes with Canon cameras, as he illustrates. |
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| Ranked Posts: 3526 |
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| Trinidad and Tobago |
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| #11 Re: DSLR Camera Help 06/05/2008 @ 16:32:27 |
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| In reply to post #9 ... |
Excellent post phil- very helpful indeed, just what I was after. Thanks  |
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| #10 Re: DSLR Camera Help 06/05/2008 @ 12:42:51 |
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| Ranked Posts: 789 |
| UK - England |
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| #9 Re: DSLR Camera Help 06/05/2008 @ 08:58:07 |
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| In reply to post #1 ... |
Generally you can get paid a bit more from photography than from working in shops, so although your salesman doesn't sound too wacky, you may want to bear that in mind. I would advise that you don't buy their extended warranty either - like everything else cameras suffer infant mortality (covered by your statutory rights), but after that they usually work until you're bored with them. Plus they're not expensive to mend and they're fixed by eg Canon UK not the retailer in any case.
Cashback: ignore all of that stuff; it's just marketing and they always have some sort of "sale" on. Check internet prices and force Jessops to "price match", or buy from a proper camera shop if you can. "cash back" often is used to promote end-of-line models, so learn what's what before you buy yesterday's camera.
type
Get an SLR. Although modern compacts are better than range finders, they're still mostly fashion accessories. If you want to take snapshots use a camera 'phone; if you want to print A3 or bigger then you need a proper camera. Specifically you need to be able to see what the camera sees. You can't do that at a respectable speed with LCD finders etc. Not up to carrying an SLR - fine, take snapshots.
brand
Nikon/ Canon : doesn't make any difference unless you're into professional (full-frame) stuff, in which Canon is currently in the lead but Nikon's catching up. Nikon builds better wide lenses; Canon's teles are better. My collection includes both so no need for religious wars there.
There are other brands which you should consider; I know little of them. If you get serious about photography you'll need to switch back to Canon or Nikon eventually, but that's not a significant cost if you've only one body to consider, so there's no reason not to look at other brands to start with. You probably want to think hard before investing in extra lenses for this type of kit though.
which model?
The thing is that all the bodies use basically the same sensors. So a picture from an old £400 350D I had was indistinguishable in practice from a shot from my £6,000 1Ds. There are differences in the robustness and number of buttons on the cameras, but if the sensor size is the same then the shots are pretty much the same. However sensors get better each generation of body, so a new 12M sensor is better (wider dynamic range, less noise) than an old 12M sensor body. I'm excluding lenses for now.
I got a magazine cover with that old consumer 350D before I sold it.
Still with me? So far the above suggests:
(1) buy the cheapest body you can tolerate;
(2) buy only current model bodies.
The cheap bodies will have built in flash which is useful as a proper Canon flashgun costs £280 in the uk.
lenses
If you're starting out, get the kit lens. That's the one which the cheapest model in the range comes with. Internet idiots will sneer at it, but if you've never used an SLR it's the best lens you've ever used and you'll love it. By the time you're able to see why it's a cheap lens, you'll know enough to be able to decide precisely what to replace it with. These are usually mid-range zoom lenses which arguably are better for novices also.
IS (Image stabilization). Invented by Canon, more recently Nikon have their VR. You don't need it. You don't need it at all for snowboarding, which is essentially a wide-angle sport. I have one IS lens which is a 300mm; you don't need it for anything less. You should be more worried about the aperture range of the lens really, but if you don't know why then don't worry about either.
other stuff
Don't buy any other crap when you buy the camera. Resist the temptation to buy "accessories". You don't need after market crap, you don't need a case and you certainly don't need "filters to protect your lens". A shop will try to increase their profit margin by selling you this stuff as the cost to you is marginal compared with that of the body/lens. Buy the camera only and walk away.
You can always buy that other junk later if you really need it, which you don't.
use
Pretty much the wider the lens the better for snowboarding, and you need to be aware of the "crop factor" of partial-frame cameras. That also works for walking/ landscapes.
Wildlife is the opposite problem - you need to go long for that. And long is never long enough.
You won't see noticeable shutter lag on any DSLR although try it to see. The shutter lag on the pro cameras is the same or less than the 35mm pro film cameras used to be. Lag shouldn't be a problem for wildlife but it will be for sports. |
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| Ranked Posts: 250 |
| West Midlands |
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| #8 Re: DSLR Camera Help 06/05/2008 @ 08:29:51 |
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| In reply to post #7 ... |
iv got a 400D and i love it. The kit lens isnt up to much but a fixed focal lenghth lens totally transforms the quality. I got a 50mm 1.4 for boxing and am amazed at the results. For landscapes you want a low mm lens i.e. 14-30
The canons self cleaning sensor is superb but the Nikon looks better than the canon in my oppinion. |
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| #7 Re: DSLR Camera Help 05/05/2008 @ 23:02:43 |
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| My Canon S3IS is more than enough for what you're describing Tim mate, unless you're really going to be serious about using the SLR, and taking a course to get the most out of it, then something like what I have will be perfect. It's as near to an SLR you can get without it actually being one. |
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| Trinidad and Tobago |
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| #6 Re: DSLR Camera Help 05/05/2008 @ 22:47:50 |
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| In reply to post #2 ... |
QUOTE (wildebeest - 05/05/2008 @ 22:12:34) What do you want to use it for? Essentially what I am asking is - Do you need an SLR?
I'm wanting to start hill walking again, now my knee is more or less fixed, so wanting to get some decent scenery and wildlife pictures. Due to shutter lag on a compact when taking pics- was thinking that I could be missing some wildlife.
Also the nephew is a nightmare to take pictures of- only smiles & looks the right way for a couple of seconds 
I want to get decent pictures, as I am hoping to get them printed A3(ish) size to put around the house. So to get the better quality picture, you are likely to need an SLR camera- larger imaging chip on an SLR as apposed to a compact. |
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| Ranked Posts: 2270 |
| Banffshire |
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| #5 Re: DSLR Camera Help 05/05/2008 @ 22:41:58 |
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| In reply to post #4 ... |
personaly i use a canon eos 400d and i love it !
the start lens is not to bad but i had some others that i could use from my old canon slr camera so that was a factor for me when buying mine all bieng said. i love my 400d and i love the 1000fn slr i had before that! |
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| Ranked Posts: 2988 |
| Sweden |
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| #4 Re: DSLR Camera Help 05/05/2008 @ 22:30:15 |
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Sorry Timmy, will be a bit more helpful
I've got a D80 and have used a D40x (no worries about being outdated - I know 3 people with them and they are highly rated). I have also used my mates 400D over the weekend and the biggest issue I have is with the manual side and Av which I tend to keep the camera in nearly all the time.
The D80 I have has two command wheels - in manual mode one for aperture, one for shutter speed. The cameras above (D40x & 400d) have all got a single wheel and you need to push a button to get the mode to change. Not a major issue once you get used to it. I like the fact also that you get two screens on the D80. You get more information and it's easier to adjust than the others. Make sure whatever you get fits your hands. I got an extra battery grip for mine and I love it.
file formats - I shoot in RAW and the D80 does this. Lightroom is ace for correcting things in the original file that you may have missed.
The D40x doesn't come with a motor drive in the body - not sure about the D60, it may be worth checking as it will limit to some extent which lenses you can use.
I would recommend the Nikon, but then I have used one for 4 years now. For me it was an obvious choice as I had used an F80 before - menus, dials and functions are virtually the same. I settled on the D80 over the D200.
Failing that you could always get an Ixus - very impressed with them.  |
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| #3 Re: DSLR Camera Help 05/05/2008 @ 22:19:58 |
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| In reply to post #1 ... |
haven't seen the latest models but when we were in the market it was either the D70 or Canon 300D.
We went for the D70 as the Nikon build quality was far superior. Really pleased with the camera and would thoroughly recommend the Nikon range as I've had a play with one of the later models which has a few enhancements. The canon range just felt a bit too plasticy for me. |
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| Ranked Posts: 2988 |
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| #2 Re: DSLR Camera Help 05/05/2008 @ 22:12:34 |
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What do you want to use it for?
Essentially what I am asking is - Do you need an SLR? |
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